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Fitness, Sports and Cannabis Consumption Webinar

Our “Fitness, Sports and Cannabis Consumption” webinar, which took place on October 24, 2019, was hosted by Leah Spokojny, Director of Account Management, BDS Analytics. Special Guests included André Kajlich, CannaCraft Brand Ambassador, Endurance Athlete; Nancy Whiteman, CEO & Co-Founder, Wana Brands; and Flavie Dokken, Wana Brand Ambassador, Mountain Ultra Trail Running.

The webinar covered the emergence of athlete-focused cannabis products, current retail and consumer trends, and the benefits of cannabinoids as part of training and recovery programs.

 

 

 

 

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Video Transcription

 

Leah Spokojny:

Hi, welcome to today’s webinar. My name is Leah Spokojny. I’m the Director of Account Management here at BDS Analytics. Today we’re going to be talking about fitness, sports and cannabis consumption. We are very excited and honored to be joined by three special guests.

 

 

 

André Kajlich CannaCraft

 

 

Leah Spokojny:

First we have André Kajlich, endurance athlete, motivational speaker and lead brand ambassador for California based CannaCraft. and for those of you who aren’t aware CannaCraft manufacturers five of California’s top-selling brands, Care By Design, Absolute Extracts, Satori Chocolates, Hi-Fi Hops and Loud + Clear.

 

 

Nancy Whiteman Wana Brands

 

 

Leah Spokojny:

Next we have Nancy Whiteman. CEO and founder of Boulder based Wana Brands. Wana Brands is the producer of top selling cannabis infused products in many markets nationwide featuring a portfolio of diverse forms including edibles, vapes and extended release capsules.

 

 

 

 

Leah Spokojny:

Also from Wana, we’re joined by Wana Brand sponsored endurance athlete, Flavie Dokken who also happens to be a member of the BDS analytics employee family. Thank you so much the three of you for joining us today. This is definitely a topic we’ve been really excited and looking forward to.

 

 

Cannabis Acceptance is now mainstream

 

 

Leah Spokojny: 

As many of you already know, the cannabis industry has been evolving at lightning speeds in the last few years, but the milestones we reached as an industry aren’t always reflected in the perceptions of the general population, and stereotypes like that of a couch potato stoner have been hard to overcome. However, with legalization of cannabis spreading across the country and the farm bill changing the landscape of hemp based products, we’re seeing greater awareness and advocacy among all different types of consumers and for all different types of applications like those used for fitness and athletics.

 

Leah Spokojny:    

Many professional athletes have entered the space including NFL hall of Famer, Joe Montana, six time Olympic gold medalist, Amy van Dyken and the NBA’s Al Harrington, just to name a few. We’re seeing entire athletic events focused around cannabis from consumption friendly yoga to nationwide events like the Civilized Games. The modern canathlete offers the nonconforming world a new perspective on cannabis use and a new type of cannabis user to relate to.

 

Leah Spokojny: 

Before we dive into our discussions with these special guests, let’s run through some data. We are a data company after all. And where I’m going to focus first is on some of the insights from our consumer insights work, which allows us to really understand the motivations, attitudes, and behavior of consumers and non-consumers for that matter.

 

 

Same benefits different motivations

 

 

Leah Spokojny:    

Let’s start with the basics. Based on our most recent studies across legal states, 67% of adults, 21 plus either consume cannabis or open to the idea of consuming. Of those consumers, 71% consumed cannabis for recreational and social reasons, 56% consume for health or medical and 32% consume for both.

 

 

Health and Medical Perceptions

 

 

Leah Spokojny: 

Regardless of their individual reasons for consumption, consumers are already understanding the health and medical potentials of cannabis. 86% agreeing marijuana has medical benefits. 87% agree marijuana can relieve pain. Around two thirds agree marijuana is safer and healthier than drinking alcohol. When we look at the top reasons for consumption, our consumers tell us they are consuming to relieve pain, relax and be mellow, sleep better, manage anxiety, and then to get high or stoned is down in number five.

 

 

Health Habits of Cannabis

 

 

Leah Spokojny:    

And while those ideas of health benefits of cannabis is not a new concept, perceptions, openness and applications are still evolving. Many think of cannabis consumers as less active or healthy and more sedentary. But when we dive into the data, we can see that this is just not true. And that’s clearly illustrated in a comparison between these two groups. Consumers and non-consumers are equally prioritizing almost exactly, as you can see, healthy habits like getting enough sleep, eating right, being physically active, and just generally taking care of themselves.

 

 

Weekly healthy habits

 

 

Leah Spokojny:

And then when we look at actual fitness activities performed weekly, we can see that consumers are actually more active than non-consumers. 32% of consumers go to fitness or gym weekly, 25% do yoga or Pilates and 39% in outdoor recreation. Again, more than non-consumers.

 

 

Shifting Perceptions Adult Consumer Study

 

 

Leah Spokojny:   

So not only do we know that there’s a high percentage of active adults that are also consumers, our research study conducted by university of Colorado right here in our backyard uncovers how cannabis is used for fitness regimens. They reported that among adult cannabis consumers in fully legal States, 82% reported having consumed cannabis within one hour before or four hours after exercise. Of that group, 70% said that cannabis consumption made their exercise more enjoyable. 52% said they had greater motivation and exercise and 78% reported a boost in their recovery.

 

 

Today's Guests

 

Leah Spokojny:  

All right. Now let’s jump back over to our expert guests to hear straight from them from the brand and athlete perspective to get some insights. Nancy, we’ll kick it off with you. Can you tell us a little bit more about Wana and what made you decide to begin working with athletes?

 

Nancy Whiteman:   

Sure, of course. Thank you for having me, Leah. Well, let me just do a 30 second elevator pitch and then I have to give a shout out to BDS because you were actually instrumental in development of this particular marketing initiative. So Wana is an infused products company. We have been in business since 2010. As Leah said, I am the co-founder and CEO of Wana. Wana is best known for its edibles, especially our gummies as you can tell from that picture. And our motto is “enhance your life.” So we’re always looking for ways to deepen that message, to make the brand be more meaningful and to come alive. And so of course one of the ways that people enhance their lives is to exercise and take care of their bodies.

 

Nancy Whiteman: 

And I was really struck even before the BDS research that Leah just went through came out, we have a very young and very active workforce. And I was very struck by the fact that so many people talked about the fact that they enjoyed using cannabis while they were hiking, while they were running, while they were skiing. And it flew in the face of this stereotype that we have that cannabis users really like to hang out and watch television and eat a lot of junk food, et cetera. And so I started to get kind of curious about it. And just about that time, the research that you just went through came out and it confirmed what my intuition was, was that actually cannabis and exercise and athletics are a great combination. So that led us to start thinking about how do we connect the enhancement of life with the brand and with the products. And that led to the idea of sponsoring some athletes and Flavie was our first one, a sponsored athletes. So that’s how we kind of got into it.

 

Leah Spokojny:    

Perfect segue, Flavie I’d love to hear a bit more about your journey and how you connected with Wana brands.

 

Flavie Dokken:

Yes, thank you. Thrilled to be here. So first of all, I do have a full time job. I always get that question. But I otherwise dedicate most of my time to training and competing as a mountain ultra runner. I’ve been benefiting from the cannabis benefits from a training, pain recovery management standpoint for quite some time now. So I was a recreational user at first and started integrating cannabis to my training routine pretty organically. First as a bodybuilder, I was doing a lot of weightlifting competitions and my friends were partaking and I gave it a try and quickly replaced a lot of my pre-workouts called rage or anger explode and full of chemicals that you can find at your GNC, replaced that with a nice kick of a sativa before my workouts.

 

Flavie Dokken:  

So was kind of like my first experience, first really positive experience. But really the biggest benefits and breakthrough for me happened after I transitioned out of the Army. I served in the Army and served, suffered multiple femur stress fractures from training, just doing Army regular Army work, carrying heavy loads every day. And also I had a lot of wear and tear from just my regular training outside of the Army as well.

 

Flavie Dokken:

Dealing with those injuries, when I transitioned out of the Army, the VA, the Army was quick to prescribe a pain medication, and I was definitely wary of that. I was looking for a better way to recover and manage the pain, especially as I was really entertaining competing in ultra running and taking that on. So, that’s kind of how I started diving a little bit further into what type of cannabis products were available.

 

Flavie Dokken:    

And luckily, actually when I got out of the Army, that’s when the 2012, the industry became legal in Colorado. So I joined the industry and I started working in the industry and benefited to have access to a lot of products, different products, but also CBD type products and through error and trials I started having seen a lot of benefits from an inflammation standpoint, pain standpoint, from the different type of products that were on the market. And that’s where I connected with Wana, through events in cannabis we connected and Wana already had top notch products. They were extending their line into CBD products. And so it was really just a great connection immediately. They had a great message as far as the culture and their message to making it part of your life.

 

Flavie Dokken:  

And so that’s where I got he had the opportunity and jumped on the opportunity to be able to partner and have a voice via Wana. And I’m definitely thrilled. It’s been a great experience. It’s been great to have a platform to have a peace, and to be able to talk to people, educate people, and then hopefully one step at a time towards legalization.

 

Leah Spokojny:  

A match made in heaven.

 

Nancy Whiteman: 

It was for us too.

 

Leah Spokojny:    

And, Flavie, do you mind sharing with us a little bit, how are you incorporating cannabis into your workout and race regiments?

 

Flavie Dokken:        

So, for me, something I really want to highlight, there’s definitely two different use between the THC based only products and CBD THC ratio type products. So pre-workout before training, before a run or a session at the gym, usually I’ll use a small dose of a sativa type product. Usually like 10 milligrams, and that provides me with that effect of being really focused on my training. And if I don’t feel great that day, we’ll just have that extra kick when I still can have a really good training. So that’s really more, I think the sativa THC type products are more for a mental aspect, and it’s really where I get the most benefit.

 

Flavie Dokken:    

And then when it comes to… And then also during my run, usually I’ll patch, when I go on a long run, five, six hour type run. I’m sure Andre knows about all that. Just long, long time on my feet.

 

Leah Spokojny:    

And by the way, you didn’t hear that wrong. She said five or six hours.

 

Nancy Whiteman:    

I don’t even like to drive that long.

 

Leah Spokojny:   

So I’ll talk about just need to have maybe a couple of hours from finishing my run and kind of finish strong. And then as far as the CBD ratio, and you have two-to-one, one-to-one type products, those will come into play after my workouts or on my rest days. And that will help reduce the inflammation and I have a lot of scar tissue from previous injuries and just ongoing soreness from all the training. So that will just help me speed up their recovery, sleep better. Sleep is so important to recover, and so it will help me get back at it the next day, and hopefully I’ll have a better performance overall on race day.

 

Leah Spokojny:   

Excellent. Let’s get Andre into the mix. I’d love to hear a little bit more about your background, Andre, and how you have found yourself as a canathlete and advocate.

 

Andre Kajlich: 

Hi. Thank you. Yeah. Awesome to be a part of the conversation here with you and Nancy and Flavie. Just starting from the fact that there’s still the stereotype of the stoner, that just blows me away. I’ve always been a super active person and although I can be lazy, cannabis has never been a reason that I was being a couch potato or something. So there’s a lot of different attitudes and motivations in life. But cannabis has always been a positive. And I really do want to be part of this movement to help make cannabis one of the first tools that people are looking to at least as a possible option instead of one of the last or one of the ones that we’re just lucky maybe to have stumbled across to help us.

 

Andre Kajlich:   

And so for me, that story really starts after a traumatic double amputation, after I was run over by a subway train and Prague in the Czech Republic when I was a student. And after obviously a very intense hospital stay, I left with some prescription drugs that are widely abused. And having been a pretty healthy and clean and drug avoiding person, I really didn’t want to take those. And I found that what I thought was sort of recreational use or maybe even escapism when I was not able to handle pain and neuropathic pain, phantom limb pain and just the emotional sort of trauma of trying to recover that cannabis was at least for me an important part of recovery.

 

Andre Kajlich:           

And so there was a sort of second epiphany years later. I mean, the start of this after my accident was 2004, so I wasn’t even aware of sort of medicinal use cannabis. I was 23 years old. But probably about 10 years later you had legalization in Washington, and I’m just sort of on a day at work, I was doing research at the University of Washington and a colleague handed me CBD predominant softshell for those complaining of a headache. And so it’s sort of the realization there that there was sort of a clearheaded tool, and all of these new tools and precise dosage that was coming online because of legalization, and just the openness that suddenly existed between people who were using it and athletes. I kind of took my background in biochemistry and dove into the literature, and it’s kind of that blinders off moment where you just see a lot of potential and of course the big long history of cannabis use.

 

Andre Kajlich:           

So I’m just excited that we’re having these conversation. Obviously there’s a lot that still isn’t known. It’s difficult because working in cannabis it’d be very careful about making claims. So I’ll preface anything I say as just maybe the circumstances where I’m reaching for cannabis without, I suppose, claiming that it works. I’ll leave that to the audience to try for themselves, or ask friends and friends of the family what their experience has been with how successful it’s been and helping them with whatever they’re using it for.

 

Leah Spokojny:            

And then can you tell us a little bit specifically about how you’re using cannabis today in the pre, during and post training regimen?

 

Andre Kajlich:              

Sure, absolutely. I’m also doing sort of ultra endurance athletic. I mean five, six hours you’re getting it could be a long time. I’m doing 24 hour bike rides, multi-day bike rides. I rode across the country in 2017 sleeping 90 minutes a night, of course peddling 22 plus hours a day for 3,100 miles. And that’ll break you down and help break you down mentally and emotionally.

 

Andre Kajlich:     

So sort of pre, during and after I got interested in using cannabis based on the suggested findings of research coming out of Europe and Israel about anti-inflammatory properties within the parameters of their study, but viewed as a plant that I was utilizing anyway. So let’s see if it can help in sort of for recovery. And so I find that some mornings I’m reaching for cannabis just because I’m waking up rough, waking up sore, and I think having a good range of THC to CBD ratios is one of the reasons it’s so nice to have Care by Design line. That, sometimes you’re looking for sort of less fogginess, going to work and trying to be productive or during rides there’s times where it could be a more recreational use. If I’m doing 12-16 hour training rides as I’ve been known to do, sometimes it’s nice to sort of let the mind wander. There’s certainly other research that sort of suggests links or has hypotheses around the rewards mechanisms and sort of that runners high and endocannabinoid system. It’ll be interesting to see more research comes out supporting that. But I do find it, at the very least, pairs well with my motivation out there sometimes.

 

Leah Spokojny:       

Okay. Well I’m sure this isn’t the first time anyone has told you how inspiring your story is and Flavie yours as well. You’re pretty extreme endurance athletes. I think we can all agree that to that. But I’m struck by how many things each of you touched on that were so relatable to different audiences, replacing traditional pharmaceuticals with cannabis, or relieving aches and pains, even your exploration of medical applications that kind of came on the heels of starting with more of recreational use. So I’m sure there’s a lot of people who can look up to both of you and relate even if they’re not necessarily running or biking for six to 24 hours. So I’m sure when people ask you a lot of questions on your social media pages and to your face directly, what’s the most common question that you have to answer a lot? Flavie, why don’t we start with you.

 

Flavie Dokken:

Yeah, for me it’s funny and they’ll ask What type of product I use, but then it’s quickly followed by, well, but how can you run or do anything? isn’t it interfering or? So, there’s still that stigma, are you’re not falling asleep when you run or something. I always answer with it’s a matter of dosing and then I start, it’s just it’s a great opportunity to educate people and kind of start from scratch with that education. I think people are looking for education and they also want to be reassured because there is a lot of fear based stigma with the consumption. So, that’s kind of my answer and how I can, hopefully that person will take a chance and it hopefully will maybe help them become active actually or have that … actually be open to it.

 

Leah Spokojny:     

Yeah. Andre, what would you say is the most common question you get?

 

Andre Kajlich:            

I’m constantly surprised at sort of the naivety or sort of the novice user that constantly talking to, and I think that’s just where we’re at which is quite exciting because there’s a base level of information just to start with and get out there and educate people. So, around Care By Design, a lot of it’s about the line and when they might use different ratios and why there are different ratios of CBD to THC. I’ll get people sort of skeptical about cannabis use in the first place. I can relate. I’ve probably, the high school and early college days are, there were uncomfortable experiences with cannabis where it was much like drinking. It was all about maximum quantity and it left me less than ideal, sort of state of being.

 

Andre Kajlich:      

I think there’s a totally new way to use this as a tool that just doesn’t rely grabbing whatever you can buy and smoking it. So, I think sort of talking them through what the effect might be as far as they’re feeling and how it will leave them. I get a lot of like, “I’m kind of old school.” And they’re drinking wine late into the night, and so I kind of make the comparison. I’ve been in a, I think I was in a buffet line where I was talking about cannabis with somebody and they offered me a beer and I’m like, “I don’t drink.” Then we sort of had that conversation of what cannabis really is and it’s pretty simple to change some minds. I think especially if they see you as sort of a level-headed, active, ambitious, but fairly chill guy. So, yeah, pretty basic questions still out there and it’s fun to have those conversations.

 

Leah Spokojny:        

So Nancy, moving back to you, were any of these products, I mean Flavie talked a lot about really dialing in, dosing, and CBD, and THC. Were any of these products actually developed specifically with sports and fitness in mind?

 

Nancy Whiteman:      

No. I want to elaborate on why no. It has to do, it goes back to our bodies, the endocannabinoid system in our bodies, which I think is fairly widely known now. It is one of the main regulators of the whole body. So, what ends up happening over time is that we develop deficiencies in the endocannabinoid system. The cannabis plant is uniquely created really to fill in those deficiencies, which is why THC and CBD works for so many different kinds of conditions. It works for pain, it works for anxiety, it works for inflammation, it works for sleep, because what it’s doing is it’s not fixing those things per se, it’s actually getting the regulatory system back into its proper condition. The reason I give that as a background to your question is because that means that products can really accomplish multiple things.

 

Nancy Whiteman:    

So products, and both Flavie and Andre sort of alluded to this, the same product can work for a variety of different things. It can work for recovery, it can work for sleep, it can work for pain and inflammation. So there isn’t really, at this point in time, a functional reason, except for marketing of course, to try to formulate a product that is geared specifically for athletes. On the market and in branding side of it, what I would say is as long as we have a regulatory structure that essentially makes our markets state by state markets, it’s not really large enough to have that sort of micro consumer segmentation and targeting that one would see in a typical CPG type environment.

 

Leah Spokojny:        

Well having ambassadors like Flavie and Andre for CannaCraft and Care by Design is certainly a great way to work through some of the restrictions I’m sure you have in marketing.

 

Nancy Whiteman:  

Exactly. That’s exactly right. I think rather than take it from the product form and product developments angle, I think our philosophy was to find influencers who exemplified what we mean when we say that cannabis can enhance your life, right? That’s why we really, we sought out athletes who are sort of living, walking emblems and kind of, I’m so stunned by both of you. I’m so amazed at your endurance, it’s incredible.

 

Leah Spokojny:     

So on that, are there any other representatives or ambassadors that you either have or are looking for to exemplify really enhancing your life?

 

Nancy Whiteman:  

Yes. So we have another one, an athlete, right now who’s a very talented Yogi named Martha. She incorporates cannabis into her yoga practice personally, but she’s also a practitioner. In fact, I hate this one, but she’s in Greece teaching yoga for four months or something.

 

Leah Spokojny:     

Oh, that sounds so nice.

 

Nancy Whiteman:    

It does sound so nice, and we actually just recently launched our products in California. So we are actively looking for some ambassadors and athletes that are skilled in the sports that we tend to associate a little bit more with California with surfing, or skateboarding, or possibly even golf if we go a little further South. So we are actively looking for more athletes to sponsor.

 

Leah Spokojny:    

Great, and then kind of moving back to the product development perspective, is there anything coming down the line for Wana Brands or just released that’s relevant to the fitness community or any other benefits like that-that everybody should be aware of?

 

Nancy Whiteman:     

You know, a lot of our focus coming up in 2020 is going to be on adding quick onset products to our portfolio. Our philosophy is to try to create a portfolio that lets people curate their own experience very precisely. So that means a lot of different THC-CBD ratios. It means different dosages. It means having Indica, and Sativa, and hybrid products. And increasingly it means letting people have more control over onset and offset. For athletes, who may have specific goals in mind, it might be a nice option for them to have something that kicks in more quickly and doesn’t last quite as long.

 

Leah Spokojny:    

Mm-hmm, that’s definitely something I know that some of us, I know personally I have a very long onset.

 

Nancy Whiteman:     

Yeah.

 

Leah Spokojny:      

That can be challenging at times.

 

Nancy Whiteman:    

Exactly, yep.

 

Leah Spokojny:       

Well, moving onto to a slightly different topic for a minute, I’d be remiss not to bring up the idea of controversy with cannabis and athletes. Flavie is that something you experience?

 

Flavie Dokken:       

Yes. I mean it’s definitely, there’s still I think a long way to go before full acceptance, even in beautiful Colorado and then in the Boulder bubble, which we’re called the mega vendor in sports. I have a lot of friends here that are elite athletes and making a living off their sponsorships. I know if I happen to go to an event with them, a lot of times I cannot mention that they do partake and if somebody knows that, know of me and my consumption, they’ll be quick to talk down or throw out stereotypes. The reality is that a lot of those elite athletes do partake. So I think a lot, there’s still a lot of closeted users in the athletic community, but I understand that … I think that until it’s federally legal, that’s really when things will be able to turn around, and even Colorado/Boulder people will be able to be open and actually also talk about the benefits of their consumption.

 

Flavie Dokken:     

And then not so much of the controversy, but still a lot of stereotypes. For me, whether it’s friends or if I’m at events, trail running things like that, there’s a lot of opportunities to get lost on the trails and things like that. So if I ever stumble or kind of get a little bit off trail, people will be quick to say, “Oh, she’s really high.” Or, “You had too many gummies today.” Or, so that type of stereotype, but it’s … I laugh about it and in the end I can prove myself.

 

Leah Spokojny:     

I think you have proven yourself.

 

Flavie Dokken:             

So it’s okay, it’s okay.

 

Leah Spokojny:      

Andre, as an athlete in a wheel chair, how do you feel … Do you feel that you get a pass on some of those stereotypes and controversy, or do you still experience that?

 

Andre Kajlich:       

Yeah, I kind of feel like, yeah, the luckiest man alive. I mean I don’t know whether it’s to get a pass as a disabled athlete. I tend to just get on with people super well in the first place. Yeah, I have also, I have a little bit of a different situation in that I’m not taking, as far as athletics and going to races where talking about head-to-head competition or falling under regulatory bodies as much as … I see myself as an explorer and a cannabis and attempting to sort of blaze a new path of that, sort of ties in well with that. I also, and mostly doing ultra endurance sport and from the most part, those athletes get it, they’re always looking for the cleanest, healthiest way to live.

 

Andre Kajlich:         

Cannabis ties in perfectly well with that. You talked about it earlier, prescription drugs, but there’s also just over the counter nonsteroidal antiinflammatory drugs, and I think as far as replacements option people see something from a plant is as a no brainer. So yeah, I mean something I believe in, I don’t worry too much about what other people think. I just think going out there and trying to be the best me is setting an example and I don’t have to worry about the example, just be be the best me I can be.

 

Leah Spokojny:

Well, it certainly is impressive what both of you are accomplishing. So anybody, any naysayers, I think have have no place to be doing that. So Nancy, back to the idea of dialing in, onset offset, thinking about Sativa versus Indica, how are you making decisions on kind of where to incorporate, whether it be chemistry, or marketing, and really how to move forward the business according to the needs of the consumer base?

 

Nancy Whiteman:   

That’s a great question, and it’s not a simple one to answer either. I would divvy it up into several different categories. One is we are constantly looking at consumer research, trying to understand how people use the product, what they want the product to do for them, to try to make sure that we’re always have the consumers perspective first and foremost in our minds. Secondly, we have a very wonderful, talented director of innovation and he’s constantly attending science conferences and networking with scientists and technologists and technology companies to really understand what’s the cutting edge of what is being done with the plant. Everything from genetics, to extraction, to a fusion of various different types of supplements, and cannabinoids, and terpenes, and flavonoids, and how things are being recombined. So you have to understand what people want, then you have to understand what’s possible and what the scientists are actually working on.

 

Nancy Whiteman:     

Then, you have to figure out what the market is actually ready for because it is probably technically possible for us to put together products that may be more effective, but they also might be a bit more complex than the marketplace is ready to absorb right now. So, I think it’s a combination of all of those things. And then, of course, some of it is just regulatorily driven, right? We might say, “Hey, the sweet spot for THC is a 25 milligram individual product,” but the regulation say 10 the most you can do, right? So there’s always a … we have to temper everything against regulations and compliance as well.

 

Leah Spokojny:            

Definitely. And then when it … moving that science to you individuals, Flavie and Andre, I’m wondering how you approach trying a new product that might come out either from Wana or Care by Design, how do you think about incorporating that and how it may or may not work within your existing routine?

 

Flavie Dokken:     

Yes. I mean usually I’ll give it a try and if I can break down the products, so cut it in half or something, I’ll always start with a low dose, I think the key, especially for sports, I think a little bit goes a long way. We’re not looking to impair anything, so yes, I run trials, so I’ll schedule a training and really conduct it like an experiment and then see how I feel as the time goes by and during my workout and kind of assess that really organically. So that’s … And obviously I get a lot of information working with Wana. I’m able to get all the details, which puts me in a great position to assess those products even more, so definitely a great benefit from that. So that’s kind of how I start getting all the right information, and then experimenting.

 

Leah Spokojny:

Andre, what about you?

 

Andre Kajlich:  

Yeah, on the one hand, it’s always so personal, so I definitely don’t try to take just the effect of something on me and expect that it’s going to be so wonderful for everybody on the planet. But yeah, I mean R&D and, and testing, I’m certainly making a push to, through some partnerships, collect some athlete data, working with some experts in sports, exercise, and nutrition. So excited to share sort of those partnerships when I get to, but yeah, it’s … You know, for me, I’m always, let’s see, very intuition driven. As an athlete, I really don’t ride with wattage meters, sometimes the GPS or speed or heart rate. I like to be in tune with my body. So when I’m doing long rides, I want to have a good sense of if I’m doing damage or if I can sustain a pace.

 

Andre Kajlich:         

I think looking at numbers on the bike, sometimes is unhelpful, because a lot of it depends on how you feel. So I try to take that into any kind of product testing. I mean, ultimately it’s about how I feel out there. And so if it’s improving that or the way I feel the next day, or the way I feel for the next ride, then I just stick with it and see if that continues.

 

Andre Kajlich:             

And I think we’re so early on that there’s not a lot known. And just speaking towards a new product, it’s hard to know what is going to work in the market. I think as you guys release data and research summaries, there’s surprises in there. And I think going forward, we don’t always know what’s going to be adopted the most and sometimes it’ll probably be new cannabinoids that have a certain effect that sort of lead the way. And sometimes it might just be form factors and different things that from our ease of use, or integrate, into an active lifestyle the best. And that’s why it’s exciting because none of this is set yet. And we’re going to be a part of it.

 

Leah Spokojny:      

Absolutely. I want to remind everyone that we’re going to take a few questions at the end. So if you have any for any three of our guests, please feel free to send that in now. But first I’m going to take a crack at them myself with some quick fire round of questioning. Let’s put them on the spot here. Hopefully a few fun questions. Get to know them maybe a little bit better. So this first question is for the athletes, you are crossing the finish line, the very end of the race. What’s your finish line song? What’s going through your head?

 

Flavie Dokken:    

Probably Alive from Zedd, first song.

 

Leah Spokojny:        

What was that?

 

Flavie Dokken:       

It’s the Alive from Zedd.

 

Leah Spokojny:      

Nice.

 

Flavie Dokken:         

Yeah, so. It was the first song I heard, also, finishing up my first Ultra. It’s my soundtrack, I guess.

 

Leah Spokojny:     

Love it.

 

Andre Kajlich:         

I never know what to do at a finish line. I mean, crossing America in 12 days, you expect it to be some big party, but I don’t do it for the finish line. I try not to sort of live my life that way, anyway. It’s about the new things and unknowns. And so it’d probably just be something chill like, I don’t know, Bob Dylan The Ring.

 

Leah Spokojny:     

What a metaphor for life. There’s no finish line. Just the journey, right?

 

Andre Kajlich:        

Yes.

 

Leah Spokojny:            

Flavie me and Andre, another one for you guys. What is your favorite strain for race prep? Flavie?

 

Flavie Dokken:    

Some good training and some classic German poison, usually.

 

Leah Spokojny:     

Andre, do you have a favorite?

 

Andre Kajlich:    

God, I mean, I’m by no means the strain expert. I think a lot of people might reach for an ACDC or a blue jay way or something to sort of help with the nerves pre-race. I kind love that part of pre-race. I’m not nervous, I’m not doing something new, I’m not excited about it. So I kind of enjoy that part. So I might just run with, I have a sour diesel ABX vape on me. Something like that. Or wedding cake always seems to be good.

 

Leah Spokojny:      

This one’s for Nancy. What is a gummy flavor you think would be delicious but you think other people might think is really gross?

 

Nancy Whiteman:

Well that’s so funny because we’re always working on new flavors and I was thinking that ginger might be delicious, but I got a big eh from everybody else. So I don’t know that they thought it was gross. But it didn’t get any big thumbs up, either.

 

Leah Spokojny:          

This one, we’ll go round Robin. We’ll have everybody answer it. Let’s start with Nancy again. What format of cannabis do you wish existed that you haven’t seen out there today?

 

Nancy Whiteman:   

All right, well I have to first preface by saying that I believe that gummy to be the platonic ideal of edible formats because it’s small, it’s discreet, you are used to just eating one of them because of vitamins, et cetera. But, and I’m going to answer it, but I’m going to tell you that I also know why brands are not manufacturing it, but I’m definitely a salt person rather than a sweet person when it comes to snacks, and like a bag of infused potato chips or something like that. I’ll tell you why people aren’t doing it, is because nobody, you can eat one gummy and be satisfied. You’re not going to eat one potato chip and be satisfied. So a manufacturer has to make an entire bag of potato chips and they’re very hard to test. So I get why people aren’t doing it. But that would be probably the one I would vote for.

 

Leah Spokojny:      

Nice.

 

Flavie Dokken:    

Ah, I’d go with something like energy gel. I think it’s been tried in the past, but without too much success.

 

Nancy Whiteman:   

Not a lot of success? Yeah.

 

Leah Spokojny:      

Somebody did do that, I remember that?

 

Nancy Whiteman:   

Yeah.

 

Leah Spokojny:        

Andre?

 

Andre Kajlich:       

Let’s see. I mean, I agree with the gummies. I think, especially as sort of during sport, having something that’s moist, not something dry, gummies kind of hold up in your pocket well, I’d say as far as like, carrying a vape, which 18 to 1 based, 100% cannabis oil, whoever’s buying cartridges out there, make sure that you’re going to a licensed dispensary and buying quality products.

 

Andre Kajlich:          

But that’s something that’s always on me. I like that form factor and especially the immediacy of the effects. Even, yes, when doing high intensity cardiovascular workouts. I think, one, not to get too advert on here, but we have a partnership with Lagunita’s, making Hi-Fi, hops with absolute extracts. And for me, that’s one that didn’t exist and it’s sort of the active lifestyle beverage, something that’s not dehydrating or have that sort of fall off and tiredness associated with beer. And a high CBD version of that. And I would like to see an effervescent tablet. I think a lot of people are coming up with products that are reinventing the wheel. If you look at athletes, a lot of them have already dialed in their nutrition. They might not be looking for a new electrolyte drink that just has some CBD thrown in it. And so, having something that you can add to what you’re already comfortable using, be that pre, during, or post workout, I think it’d be wonderful.

 

Leah Spokojny:     

That sounds great. Well let’s jump over to some of the questions from the audience. Get some of your questions answered. Feel free to keep them coming in as we’re going through. Well this is a question I’m sure you guys get often, but what products, just name one maybe and tell us a little bit about it, what product are you using most often? Just the specific one.

 

Flavie Dokken:    

For me, easy, the two to one, one of the gummies. They are just a perfect combination for right after a workout. But also I can, they’re a low dose still so I can have multiple throughout the day after a good 6-8 hours of training, I can have them through the night and it’s going to really take care of my night for recovery, and it’s just a perfect dose and it’s found that it was the perfect ratio of CBD to THC to be the most helpful with still being alert, functional and also have all the CBD benefits along with that, so.

 

Leah Spokojny:          

Great.

 

Flavie Dokken:      

And they taste awesome, so. I would eat like bags of them.

 

Leah Spokojny:   

Self-control.

 

Andre Kajlich:    

And for me, oh, sorry if I jumped in early.

 

Leah Spokojny:  

Okay.

 

Andre Kajlich:   

Okay. Sorry. Yeah, I would honestly say the whole sort of line of ratios. In Care by Design, I think having the THC there is important. It obviously depends a lot on the person’s tolerance. But also just the time of day, and the activity, and what you’re dealing with. So I’ll use something with much higher THC, sort of our eight to one is one that I find myself using in most scenarios.

 

Leah Spokojny: 

Excellent. And are there any products that, this is another audience question, any products that turn you off, even if they may be a great product, that you personally avoid?

 

Andre Kajlich:

Yeah, I can jump in. I think candy flavored vapes, for one, obviously it looks like they’re potentially disruptive. But also I like a more purist cannabis flavoring.

 

Flavie Dokken:    

For me it’s more so far concentrates. I really stay away from any butane, the wax shatter that used to be popular. But I’ve been in your industry, I tried them but I think it really, I’m not sure its the healthiest. I could tell from just knowing how my body should feel and being healthy. I can definitely tell a lot of side effects pretty quickly. So that pretty much turned me off to have all that chemical taste and then just a very chemical type effect. So I’ll steer clear from that.

 

Leah Spokojny:    

And Nancy, have you found that just from people sharing feedback with you and being involved in the athlete community, have people shared with you that there are different levels of potency that really athletes are leaning towards than the general population that are generally consuming your products?

 

Nancy Whiteman:    

No, and one of the things that is interesting about cannabis is that the same product in the same dosage can hit people so many different ways. And so it’s not a cookie cutter type product. People really do need to, as Flavie was talking about before, you need to do some experimentation with it. Obviously, we encourage people who are using the products for a particular health and wellness reasons to look for the lowest effective dose that they can find. Right? So that’s often, the industry saying is start low and go slow. That’s what we recommend, too. But there doesn’t appear to me to be any particular magical dosage. It’s very, very individual for people’s metabolisms.

 

Leah Spokojny:

That actually goes well into another audience question we had here about how, Flavie and Andre, you keep track of how these products effect you, since like Nancy said, everything effects people a little bit differently and you’d both mentioned how you try things to incorporate. Do you keep a journal? Do you have pretty good memories and you just, Andre, you mentioned you have a pretty good feel for these things, good intuition. How do you keep track?

 

Andre Kajlich:     

Yeah, I can lead off. I’m not the tracking and documentation type. I mean, which is why I also wouldn’t, sort of, be one to prescribe or get someones dose, guidance, I think it is. For each person to experiment and track how they’re comfortable. I really go off of how I feel and the intuition. So that’s just personally the way that it works for me and I’m running with that.

 

Leah Spokojny:       

Well great. We have another question for Nancy here. Where do you sell your products?

 

Nancy Whiteman:  

You can buy our products in the vast majority of dispensaries in Colorado. And then for listeners who are not in Colorado, we’ve just launched in California, we’re in hundreds of dispensaries in Oregon, Michigan, Illinois, Arizona and Ohio. And I think I forgot one, but we’re in seven states and rapidly expanding to more so hopefully within the next couple of years, almost anywhere you go that’s legal for cannabis, you’ll be able to find one.

 

Leah Spokojny:     

And I’m guessing they can go to your website and get some more information about where they might be able to buy.

 

Nancy Whiteman:      

Absolutely, yes.

 

Leah Spokojny:          

Great. Well we’re running out of time here. Would love to wrap up a little bit with hearing how we should be following Andre and and Flavic. Andre, what’s next for you? Where should we be looking for you out on these races?

 

Andre Kajlich:     

Yeah, I mean, next up I’m trying to get a big adventure off the ground to cover the continent. So in my spirit of purist romantic adventure, trying to do something that’s never been done before and cross each continent from the lowest to the highest. I’ll also be doing a lot of ultra cycling. You can go to cbd.org and that’s a care by design website. And follow the newsletter there. Or my handles are all first and last names, A-N-D-R-E K-A-J-L-I-C-H. Not the simplest handle but that’s what I’ve got.

 

Leah Spokojny:     

I’m used to the complicated last name situation. Flavie, where should we watch out for you and how can people follow you?

 

Flavie Dokken:   

Yeah, we’re already planning out next years adventures. I think I want to try some more technical races out in Alaska. I’m so excited for that, and then I’ll try to combine strength endurance and get into a Spartan obstacle course type races. And you can check out, I’m mostly active on Instagram, just type in my first last name on Instagram and also I’ll have some features on their wanabrands.com website, so.

 

Leah Spokojny:   

Good. Another good transition. Nancy, you want to tell us where people can go to learn more about your products and follow what’s going on at Wana Brands?

 

Nancy Whiteman: 

Sure. The easiest thing is to go to our website, which is wanabrands.com. And Wana has one N, that’s probably the biggest mistake that people make when they’re looking for us online. So W-A-N-A-B-R-A-N-D-S.com.

 

Leah Spokojny:   

Excellent. And I want to quickly note a couple of things about, we’ve got lots and lots of great questions, some a little bit more medical advice in nature. So probably something that the athletes will steer away from, giving you advice. But I do encourage you, I know that for sure they’re both really active on their social medias. So if you ask them questions, I know that they’re really good about answering how they incorporate products in their routine, how they think about their own fitness and et cetera.

 

Andre Kajlich:     

If I could, oh, I just was going to add for, there are good answers out to a lot of those types of questions and just projectcbd.org is a good place to to go. They take a lot of the literature and kind of put it in more common language. So it’s a good place for that kind of information that I can’t give.

 

Leah Spokojny:   

Yeah, that’s really helpful. Thank you. And then the other line of a lot of questions are about getting a little bit more data on consumers, and how to use that to think about marketing for dispensaries for brands. I encourage you to reach out to BDS analytics. We can talk through different types of data, that we may be able to help you with those types of questions. And from there, just want to thank you all for joining. I really appreciate it, Nancy, Flavie, Andre, you have been wonderful guests and so informative, I’m sure, to everybody here. I know I need to go work out. I’m feeling a little bit like…

 

Leah Spokojny:            

Well again, thank you all, the webinar will be available for download off of our website and we’ll talk to you soon.

 

Thank You

 

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